Comments on: Flex Vs Flash http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/ A Blog covering Air, Flash, Flex, Illustrator and Photoshop Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:26:42 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Robert http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-17109 Robert Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:48:25 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-17109 When developing apps with the Flash IDE; I always do as much as I can with actionscript and avoid the timeline. Mostly for the precision and flexibility of using math equations to generate shapes and tweens. Generally, I’ll use .as files for their extendibility and reusability. As it happens, most of my FLA’s end up being empty shells that point to a document class. So why do I use the Flash IDE instead of Flex? Because when I need to draw something by hand, I can. Because class/property documentations are only a click away. And; because I can use visual aids on the “stage” to help determine the x, y, width, and height properties I need in code, which results in a lot less “guess and check.” Lastly, I like my apps to be unique and original. Using components really takes away from that; but on the flip side, they are very quick and convenient when on a strict deadline. All in all, I think those who are familiar with the Flash IDE can benefit from it greatly. When developing apps with the Flash IDE; I always do as much as I can with actionscript and avoid the timeline. Mostly for the precision and flexibility of using math equations to generate shapes and tweens. Generally, I’ll use .as files for their extendibility and reusability. As it happens, most of my FLA’s end up being empty shells that point to a document class. So why do I use the Flash IDE instead of Flex?

Because when I need to draw something by hand, I can.
Because class/property documentations are only a click away.
And; because I can use visual aids on the “stage” to help determine the x, y, width, and height properties I need in code, which results in a lot less “guess and check.”

Lastly, I like my apps to be unique and original. Using components really takes away from that; but on the flip side, they are very quick and convenient when on a strict deadline. All in all, I think those who are familiar with the Flash IDE can benefit from it greatly.

]]> By: Talal Manaa http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-17063 Talal Manaa Sat, 04 Oct 2008 23:33:25 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-17063 I disagree with people who judged that flash is for animation and funny stuff ! Flash can be integrated with any dynamic webpages like ASP, ASPX, CFM, jsp, and php. Moreover, it can easily integrate with static or dynamically generated xml files like dynamic rss generated by any of the frontend scripting languages mentioned above. Personally I developed search functionalities in FLASH, and made one Encyclopedia in CD-ROM. and end users found it so interesting that you need no additional component to install before running the CD. YES ! all you have to have is a flash player plugged in your browser ! I didn't use flex before but I had a look at its tutorials; however, I decided not to waste my time learning it. Flash is really a FLASH ! it is huger and of larger capabilities and can do whatever you want with it. Not to mention games that can have your scores saved using LSO (Local Shared Objects). Finally, I recommend flash over the silly Flex ! I disagree with people who judged that flash is for animation and funny stuff !
Flash can be integrated with any dynamic webpages like ASP, ASPX, CFM, jsp, and php.
Moreover, it can easily integrate with static or dynamically generated xml files like dynamic rss generated by any of the frontend scripting languages mentioned above.
Personally I developed search functionalities in FLASH, and made one Encyclopedia in CD-ROM. and end users found it so interesting that you need no additional component to install before running the CD. YES ! all you have to have is a flash player plugged in your browser !
I didn’t use flex before but I had a look at its tutorials; however, I decided not to waste my time learning it. Flash is really a FLASH ! it is huger and of larger capabilities and can do whatever you want with it. Not to mention games that can have your scores saved using LSO (Local Shared Objects).
Finally, I recommend flash over the silly Flex !

]]> By: Flash Vs Flex - UPDATE « Flash Enabled Blog http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-16625 Flash Vs Flex - UPDATE « Flash Enabled Blog Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:55:54 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-16625 [...] few time ago, i’ve wrote a post asking for your opinion about which is the best program to work. After some opinions, we could [...] [...] few time ago, i’ve wrote a post asking for your opinion about which is the best program to work. After some opinions, we could [...]

]]> By: Carlos Pinho http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-14985 Carlos Pinho Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:24:20 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-14985 Hi Tony, Tnx for this excellent comment. I'm very confident about the success of both programs, although i can confess that i tried flex several times but is too hard, or at least i'm not good enough to work on it. While in Flash, any auto-didactic person is able to start making simple things, in flex things come more complex and harder to achieve. Anyway i liked very much the part where you mentioned the FlashDevelop, as it is a free for all program and it is giving "cards" in this software "game", and is starting to assume a very important "job" in the middle of the "giants". Hi Tony,

Tnx for this excellent comment. I’m very confident about the success of both programs, although i can confess that i tried flex several times but is too hard, or at least i’m not good enough to work on it. While in Flash, any auto-didactic person is able to start making simple things, in flex things come more complex and harder to achieve.

Anyway i liked very much the part where you mentioned the FlashDevelop, as it is a free for all program and it is giving “cards” in this software “game”, and is starting to assume a very important “job” in the middle of the “giants”.

]]> By: Tony Jacobson http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-14981 Tony Jacobson Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:19:13 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-14981 At Ratio Interactive we've built large Flash applications with purely Flash IDE and recently other ones using purely Flex Builder IDE. I think the real issue is that the Flash IDE makes it easier to fully customize the user experience and ui look of your sites. Flex provides much more components and pre-built functionality thus provides a quicker build and more functionality out of the box. I'm personally a fan of doing the top level class of your site in MXML (Flex) and everything else under that in purely AS3. This gives you all the functionality and components of Flex whenever you need and allows you to have the power of customization that Flash brings. (requires that you include the fl.swc in your project build path preferences). Flex Builder and MXML have a lot of similarities to Visual Studio and C# and the .NET framework. Developers used to that environment will feel somewhat comfortable of being able to find their way around the Flex/MXML environment. A few examples of components Flex 3 has that Flash CS3 does not: 1) Rich Text Editor (RTF Component) 2) Date Picker 3) A ton of built in graphing tools 4) More robust version of (eg. DataGrid and many more) With Flex Builder 3 they've come a long way towards the ability to design the look and feel of the components to a certain point. But to truly and fully customize you'll have to get into doing overrides or even just building stuff from scratch. I do see a future where all ActionScripting is done outside of the Flash IDE using FlexBuilder or one of the various Text Editor tools (eg. FlashDevelop, sciTE, SEPY, TextMate, etc). And then design happening in the Flash IDE or the other Adobe products (Illustrator, Photoshop, Fireworks). You can already install an add-on to Flash that allows you to design Flex Component skins from pre-built templates. This goes a long ways toward allowing people to create unique look and feels to their sites and applications. (maybe only 85% though). At Ratio Interactive we’ve built large Flash applications with purely Flash IDE and recently other ones using purely Flex Builder IDE. I think the real issue is that the Flash IDE makes it easier to fully customize the user experience and ui look of your sites. Flex provides much more components and pre-built functionality thus provides a quicker build and more functionality out of the box.

I’m personally a fan of doing the top level class of your site in MXML (Flex) and everything else under that in purely AS3. This gives you all the functionality and components of Flex whenever you need and allows you to have the power of customization that Flash brings. (requires that you include the fl.swc in your project build path preferences).

Flex Builder and MXML have a lot of similarities to Visual Studio and C# and the .NET framework. Developers used to that environment will feel somewhat comfortable of being able to find their way around the Flex/MXML environment.

A few examples of components Flex 3 has that Flash CS3 does not:
1) Rich Text Editor (RTF Component)
2) Date Picker
3) A ton of built in graphing tools
4) More robust version of (eg. DataGrid and many more)

With Flex Builder 3 they’ve come a long way towards the ability to design the look and feel of the components to a certain point. But to truly and fully customize you’ll have to get into doing overrides or even just building stuff from scratch.

I do see a future where all ActionScripting is done outside of the Flash IDE using FlexBuilder or one of the various Text Editor tools (eg. FlashDevelop, sciTE, SEPY, TextMate, etc). And then design happening in the Flash IDE or the other Adobe products (Illustrator, Photoshop, Fireworks).

You can already install an add-on to Flash that allows you to design Flex Component skins from pre-built templates. This goes a long ways toward allowing people to create unique look and feels to their sites and applications. (maybe only 85% though).

]]> By: D. White http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-14698 D. White Sat, 15 Mar 2008 06:11:05 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-14698 To Slater who says he's never seen a really stunning flex app. Check out this page and hit menu! Happened to find it while reading about flex. http://www.indianajones.com/site/?deeplink=videos/2/v30 To Slater who says he’s never seen a really stunning flex app. Check out this page and hit menu! Happened to find it while reading about flex. http://www.indianajones.com/site/?deeplink=videos/2/v30

]]> By: no name http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-13617 no name Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:24:32 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-13617 I disagree with most that’s been said. Flex is “dumbed” out. There is a reason it easier and faster to develop. ( Less control. ) If you like built in UI components I guess flex is for you. I on the other hand think components suck – for both flex and flash. (they don’t load or work as well as coding by hand) + what’s the point of even using flex if you are limited in the design? Flash will prevail because of the timeline, ability to customize, and overall freedom. Even if you are a developer stick with flash. (trust me) I disagree with most that’s been said. Flex is “dumbed” out. There is a reason it easier and faster to develop. ( Less control. ) If you like built in UI components I guess flex is for you. I on the other hand think components suck – for both flex and flash. (they don’t load or work as well as coding by hand) + what’s the point of even using flex if you are limited in the design? Flash will prevail because of the timeline, ability to customize, and overall freedom. Even if you are a developer stick with flash.
(trust me)

]]> By: uksal http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-12774 uksal Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:15:31 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-12774 Flash applications get that creative look which is far better than Flex. Ohh, people argue that Flex is for programmers. I am a programmer and use Flash with actionscript. I build anything that Flex developers can build. How about them(flex developers) can they build what I do in Flash? (hehe, no way!) Flash applications get that creative look which is far better than Flex. Ohh, people argue that Flex is for programmers. I am a programmer and use Flash with actionscript. I build anything that Flex developers can build. How about them(flex developers) can they build what I do in Flash? (hehe, no way!)

]]> By: Flash Vs Flex « Flash Enabled - Get Ready With Flash… http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-3284 Flash Vs Flex « Flash Enabled - Get Ready With Flash… Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:48:53 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-3284 [...] few time ago, i’ve wrote a post asking for your opinion about which is the best program to work. After some opinions, we could [...] [...] few time ago, i’ve wrote a post asking for your opinion about which is the best program to work. After some opinions, we could [...]

]]> By: Keith http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-1742 Keith Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:39:26 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-1742 I've perused Flex docs and examples since it came out - and even played with FlexBuilder - but I've never really been able to figure out what the noise is about. These posts are the best thing I've read about what I'm missing and the answer seems to be 'not much'. That being said I've finally got some downtime at the office, downloaded the Flex SDK and have decided to bite the bullet and develop something. I've been using Flash for years (mainly B2B financial services apps) - and with components, .as files and XML-based configuration files (which lets biz analysts configure a portal anyway they want) I barely touch the IDE. Most of my MovieClips are just dummy holders that do nothing more than point to a class file. But when I do want to do something wizzy (and believe me, that contributes more to a sale than months of slick actionscript coding) my options are open. My one peeve - confirmed in some of these posts - is the crapiness of the debugger. At least Flash 8 let you set breakpoints in .as files and it looks like Flash 9 might finally deliver a real debugger. But that's all I really need. And XML manipulation can be a pain, but AS3 is supposed to take care of that. The biggest drawback for Flash is its separation from the HTML world. HTML handling inside Flash is really limited, search engine optimization for consumer sites is out and integrating with 3rd party AJAX services is difficult if you don't want to lose session context. Maybe in a month or two my opions will have completely changed. I’ve perused Flex docs and examples since it came out – and even played with FlexBuilder – but I’ve never really been able to figure out what the noise is about. These posts are the best thing I’ve read about what I’m missing and the answer seems to be ‘not much’. That being said I’ve finally got some downtime at the office, downloaded the Flex SDK and have decided to bite the bullet and develop something.

I’ve been using Flash for years (mainly B2B financial services apps) – and with components, .as files and XML-based configuration files (which lets biz analysts configure a portal anyway they want) I barely touch the IDE. Most of my MovieClips are just dummy holders that do nothing more than point to a class file. But when I do want to do something wizzy (and believe me, that contributes more to a sale than months of slick actionscript coding) my options are open.

My one peeve – confirmed in some of these posts – is the crapiness of the debugger. At least Flash 8 let you set breakpoints in .as files and it looks like Flash 9 might finally deliver a real debugger. But that’s all I really need.

And XML manipulation can be a pain, but AS3 is supposed to take care of that.

The biggest drawback for Flash is its separation from the HTML world. HTML handling inside Flash is really limited, search engine optimization for consumer sites is out and integrating with 3rd party AJAX services is difficult if you don’t want to lose session context.

Maybe in a month or two my opions will have completely changed.

]]> By: adampasz http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-151 adampasz Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:02:06 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-151 I've just taken the plunge into Flex after about a year of avoiding it -- mainly because my clients weren't ready for it yet. It's definitely a big scary world, but once you get comfortable with it, it's exciting too. I accept that the AVM/AS2 model was starting to reach its limits, and I respect Macromedia and Adobe for pushing the envelope. I haven't been this excited about the possibilities of Flash in a long time. I’ve just taken the plunge into Flex after about a year of avoiding it — mainly because my clients weren’t ready for it yet. It’s definitely a big scary world, but once you get comfortable with it, it’s exciting too. I accept that the AVM/AS2 model was starting to reach its limits, and I respect Macromedia and Adobe for pushing the envelope. I haven’t been this excited about the possibilities of Flash in a long time.

]]> By: Clark Slater http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-150 Clark Slater Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:42:56 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-150 Flex is great for getting traditional Java developers into the Flash platform party but for truly *rich* internet applications that mix as much functionality as they do stunning custom design, you cannot compete with FlashIDE + FlashDevelop. I love the way Flex works but we can't find clients that are happy for their stuff to look the same as everyone else with an RIA...albeit with different colors. Haven't yet seen a really stunning custom designed app built in Flex. Flex is great for getting traditional Java developers into the Flash platform party but for truly *rich* internet applications that mix as much functionality as they do stunning custom design, you cannot compete with FlashIDE + FlashDevelop.

I love the way Flex works but we can’t find clients that are happy for their stuff to look the same as everyone else with an RIA…albeit with different colors.

Haven’t yet seen a really stunning custom designed app built in Flex.

]]> By: greg h http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-21 greg h Sat, 03 Feb 2007 00:50:13 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-21 One minor addition to Bjorn's "new structure": - Flash ( animation and design and <b>mobile</b>) Let's not forget Flash Lite! Which in time may be a huge market! The Flex 2 framework requires the AVM2 in Flash Player 9. We are not going to be seeing AVM2 on cell phones or other mobile devices anytime soon. So until then Flash has sole dominion in the mobile market! g One minor addition to Bjorn’s “new structure”:

- Flash ( animation and design and mobile)

Let’s not forget Flash Lite! Which in time may be a huge market!

The Flex 2 framework requires the AVM2 in Flash Player 9. We are not going to be seeing AVM2 on cell phones or other mobile devices anytime soon. So until then Flash has sole dominion in the mobile market!

g

]]> By: greg h http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-20 greg h Sat, 03 Feb 2007 00:29:11 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-20 Great comments by all. I love especially how Bjorn has distilled down the big picture so succinctly. Following is a link to a very thoughtful post earlier this week by Cortlandt Winters over at FlashCoders: <a href="http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/pipermail/flashcoders/2007-January/178967.html " rel="nofollow">http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/pipermail/flashcoders/2007-January/178967.html</a> Cort's analysis includes Laszlo. I think his analysis is relevant to this thread because he is a seasoned Flash developer and much of his post discusses his impressions of Flex 2. Personally I see Flex 2 as expanding the ecosystem of the Flash Platform. It is kind of a right-brain, left-brain type of thing. In time, most Flex developer will never have used Flash. And a lot of Flash developers will never delve into the application work that Flex caters too. In fact, I will hazard a guess that less than 1 in 5 Flex developers will ever use Flash. And maybe less than 1 in 3 Flash developers will ever use Flex. Flash and Flex are very different tools. In general they appeal to very different audiences. Net result, the ecosystem of the Flash Platform expands and everyone in the ecosystem benefits. Flex shops outsource elements to Flash shops. Some Flash shops are able to pick up work that they may not previously have had access to. And in the end, the more robust the Flash Platform is, the more everybody wins! If Flash and Flex are not twins (non-fraternal), then at minimum they are close first cousins. g Great comments by all. I love especially how Bjorn has distilled down the big picture so succinctly.

Following is a link to a very thoughtful post earlier this week by Cortlandt Winters over at FlashCoders:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/pipermail/flashcoders/2007-January/178967.html
Cort’s analysis includes Laszlo. I think his analysis is relevant to this thread because he is a seasoned Flash developer and much of his post discusses his impressions of Flex 2.

Personally I see Flex 2 as expanding the ecosystem of the Flash Platform. It is kind of a right-brain, left-brain type of thing. In time, most Flex developer will never have used Flash. And a lot of Flash developers will never delve into the application work that Flex caters too. In fact, I will hazard a guess that less than 1 in 5 Flex developers will ever use Flash. And maybe less than 1 in 3 Flash developers will ever use Flex.

Flash and Flex are very different tools. In general they appeal to very different audiences. Net result, the ecosystem of the Flash Platform expands and everyone in the ecosystem benefits. Flex shops outsource elements to Flash shops. Some Flash shops are able to pick up work that they may not previously have had access to. And in the end, the more robust the Flash Platform is, the more everybody wins!

If Flash and Flex are not twins (non-fraternal), then at minimum they are close first cousins.

g

]]> By: Bjorn Schultheiss http://flashenabledblog.com/2007/02/23/flex-vs-flash/#comment-19 Bjorn Schultheiss Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:49:48 +0000 http://flashenabled.wordpress.com/2007/02/02/flex-vs-flash/#comment-19 I believe we have a new structure. - Flash ( animation and design ) - Flex ( app developement ) - Apollo ( deployment ) I believe we have a new structure.

– Flash ( animation and design )

– Flex ( app developement )

– Apollo ( deployment )

]]>