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Flex Vs Flash
by Carlos Pinho, February 23rd, 2007
Hi, is Flex taking over Flash? Will people ask to develop more aplications with flex than Flash? Is it easier to work with Flex? It is faster? Feel free to comment your point of view, comment what you think is the best of each platform. Meantime, as apollo is about to be launched, and as it combines several tech, as java, flex, flash and so on, will this also determine the end of the other platforms, on desktop apllications?
February 2nd, 2007 at 11:22 am
I am assuming by Flash you mean Adobe Flash Authoring tool or Flash IDE in short.
Adobe Flex and Flash IDE are two different ways of authoring content/applications. The end result is a SWF file that is being run by Adobe Flash Player. In general, by Flash we mean a Flash movie/application (.swf).
Ok let me answer your questions:-
> is Flex taking over Flash
No, With Flex more and more developers are able to create applications which was not easy to do with Flash IDE. But this doesn’t mean, importance of Adobe Flash IDE has gone down. I think, Flash IDE is required by designers or folks who want to create small applications. Practically it’s possible to create the same thing using Flex and Adobe Flash IDE, Flex allows you faster development where as Adobe Flash IDE allows you greater control over creative things (design, funky stuff, timeline-based animations etc)…
> Will people ask to develop more aplications with
> flex than Flash
As a developer, I get a problem in hand. Then I think, how can I solve it faster…That’s decision making.. I might personally like using Adobe Flash IDE, but I need to take care of some things (time, speed etc) are important so I would use a tool that allows me create things faster, better, extensible and in standard way.
Assuming, If I didn’t have any background in Adobe technology. Learning Adobe Flash IDE is hard…Adobe Flex (with FlexBuilder2) made easier by providing different programming models (MXML, AS3), tools (Flex2SDK, FlexBuilder2 on eclipse) etc It becomes easier for me to start developing with short learning curve…
When it comes to create something very creative (very funky interface, timeline animations, some code or small apps), I might use Flash IDE because I feel I can deliver faster using it.
> Is it easier to work with Flex?
Depends who you are? If you have programming background or you are learning programming, yes it is easy. If you are a designer and got used-to of timeline/stage/canvas metaphors, it might take sometime…
But if you are curious, you would always learn, things become easy later
> It is faster?
Already repeated many times above
> Meantime, as apollo is about to be launched, and
> as it combines several tech, as java, flex,
> flash and so on, will this also determine the
> end of the other platforms, on desktop
> apllications?
I don’t think Apollo is intended to kill browser or other desktop-based solutions (Zinc, Screenweaver, MS WPF/E etc)… If Apollo is successful in solving problems most developers/end users face,it would be used a lot and become ubiquitous like Flash Player, I hope it happen
I hope, I could answer…
-abdul
February 2nd, 2007 at 11:27 am
I think it depends on the kind of internet site you are designing, to my point of view FLEX is not made for that kind of eye-candy site that make FLASH so popular, I found out that many FLEX user come from development community like JAVASCRIPT, JAVA, PHP, and FLASH user come from design community
February 2nd, 2007 at 4:49 pm
No. Agencies will always use Flash. The multimedia handling of Flash is superior; it was built for this stuff.
However, most who do application development will use Flex more so in the future. Right now, the last barrier to doing so is Flash Player 8 has over 80% penetration, whereas, as of this post, Flash Player 9 does not. For a lot of public apps, this is the magic number.
Depends on the app. Clients ask for a lot of things because they think they are the hot new thing. It’s up to those who are managing to client to convey what the architect think the best technology to use is.
Large application development? Yes. Dynamic layout? Yes. Debugging? Yes.
Designing or implementing designs? No. Using a vareity of multimedia? No.
No, Flash p@wns. However, as your coding projects get bigger, Flex starts to win because it is made for coding, integrates with other tools like ANT, etc. and in the long haul, Flex wins.
Apollo is a club that doesn’t have a bouncer. Anyone can get down, and get down together. So, it’s not really stomping out other platforms as it is enabling a new one, while enhancing existing ones.
February 2nd, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Interesting post. I think it depends on who you ask regarding the Flex/Flash IDE debate.
Personally, I’m having a difficult time adopting Flex having come from a very strong background in Flash Video and FMS. I’m now working on my 3rd attempt at a Flex app where I scrapped the two previous projects to develop them in Flash IDE to meet deadlines. I can’t help but feel enfeebled when I work in Flex. I know its supposed to be faster but this learning curve is killing me. I think a lot of it also has to do with the help documentation for Flex. The Flash IDE has amazing help docs and it’s littered with examples for almost every method or property. I get lost in the Flex help docs and more often than not, frustrated because I can’t find good examples. I usually give up and go google my problem.
I think Flex is great for being able to split out the workload of large applications to multiple developers. Although, to some degree, I can’t help but feel my abilities as a Flash developer have now been discredited by other web developers within my office because they can now throw a bunch of Flex components together and say they developed a Flash app.
I’m extremely excited about Apollo. I just wish there were more examples of Flash IDE created Apollo apps. So far most of the examples I have seen were all created in Flex. Without knowing the full capabilities of Apollo, I don’t think the initial release is going to have a startling impact on desktop apps. I think a lot of companies are going to be spending a lot of time trying to figure out how they can utilize this new technology. I do believe that subsequent releases of Apollo are going to have a lions roar effect on the desktop world. If Adobe manages to leverage the power of Java with the ease of web development, they will certainly become a force to reckon with.
February 2nd, 2007 at 10:49 pm
I believe we have a new structure.
– Flash ( animation and design )
– Flex ( app developement )
– Apollo ( deployment )
February 3rd, 2007 at 12:29 am
Great comments by all. I love especially how Bjorn has distilled down the big picture so succinctly.
Following is a link to a very thoughtful post earlier this week by Cortlandt Winters over at FlashCoders:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/pipermail/flashcoders/2007-January/178967.html
Cort’s analysis includes Laszlo. I think his analysis is relevant to this thread because he is a seasoned Flash developer and much of his post discusses his impressions of Flex 2.
Personally I see Flex 2 as expanding the ecosystem of the Flash Platform. It is kind of a right-brain, left-brain type of thing. In time, most Flex developer will never have used Flash. And a lot of Flash developers will never delve into the application work that Flex caters too. In fact, I will hazard a guess that less than 1 in 5 Flex developers will ever use Flash. And maybe less than 1 in 3 Flash developers will ever use Flex.
Flash and Flex are very different tools. In general they appeal to very different audiences. Net result, the ecosystem of the Flash Platform expands and everyone in the ecosystem benefits. Flex shops outsource elements to Flash shops. Some Flash shops are able to pick up work that they may not previously have had access to. And in the end, the more robust the Flash Platform is, the more everybody wins!
If Flash and Flex are not twins (non-fraternal), then at minimum they are close first cousins.
g
February 3rd, 2007 at 12:50 am
One minor addition to Bjorn’s “new structure”:
- Flash ( animation and design and mobile)
Let’s not forget Flash Lite! Which in time may be a huge market!
The Flex 2 framework requires the AVM2 in Flash Player 9. We are not going to be seeing AVM2 on cell phones or other mobile devices anytime soon. So until then Flash has sole dominion in the mobile market!
g
February 23rd, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Flex is great for getting traditional Java developers into the Flash platform party but for truly *rich* internet applications that mix as much functionality as they do stunning custom design, you cannot compete with FlashIDE + FlashDevelop.
I love the way Flex works but we can’t find clients that are happy for their stuff to look the same as everyone else with an RIA…albeit with different colors.
Haven’t yet seen a really stunning custom designed app built in Flex.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:02 pm
I’ve just taken the plunge into Flex after about a year of avoiding it — mainly because my clients weren’t ready for it yet. It’s definitely a big scary world, but once you get comfortable with it, it’s exciting too. I accept that the AVM/AS2 model was starting to reach its limits, and I respect Macromedia and Adobe for pushing the envelope. I haven’t been this excited about the possibilities of Flash in a long time.
April 27th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
I’ve perused Flex docs and examples since it came out – and even played with FlexBuilder – but I’ve never really been able to figure out what the noise is about. These posts are the best thing I’ve read about what I’m missing and the answer seems to be ‘not much’. That being said I’ve finally got some downtime at the office, downloaded the Flex SDK and have decided to bite the bullet and develop something.
I’ve been using Flash for years (mainly B2B financial services apps) – and with components, .as files and XML-based configuration files (which lets biz analysts configure a portal anyway they want) I barely touch the IDE. Most of my MovieClips are just dummy holders that do nothing more than point to a class file. But when I do want to do something wizzy (and believe me, that contributes more to a sale than months of slick actionscript coding) my options are open.
My one peeve – confirmed in some of these posts – is the crapiness of the debugger. At least Flash 8 let you set breakpoints in .as files and it looks like Flash 9 might finally deliver a real debugger. But that’s all I really need.
And XML manipulation can be a pain, but AS3 is supposed to take care of that.
The biggest drawback for Flash is its separation from the HTML world. HTML handling inside Flash is really limited, search engine optimization for consumer sites is out and integrating with 3rd party AJAX services is difficult if you don’t want to lose session context.
Maybe in a month or two my opions will have completely changed.
June 6th, 2007 at 11:48 am
[...] few time ago, i’ve wrote a post asking for your opinion about which is the best program to work. After some opinions, we could [...]
December 10th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Flash applications get that creative look which is far better than Flex. Ohh, people argue that Flex is for programmers. I am a programmer and use Flash with actionscript. I build anything that Flex developers can build. How about them(flex developers) can they build what I do in Flash? (hehe, no way!)
January 2nd, 2008 at 10:24 pm
I disagree with most that’s been said. Flex is “dumbed” out. There is a reason it easier and faster to develop. ( Less control. ) If you like built in UI components I guess flex is for you. I on the other hand think components suck – for both flex and flash. (they don’t load or work as well as coding by hand) + what’s the point of even using flex if you are limited in the design? Flash will prevail because of the timeline, ability to customize, and overall freedom. Even if you are a developer stick with flash.
(trust me)
March 15th, 2008 at 7:11 am
To Slater who says he’s never seen a really stunning flex app. Check out this page and hit menu! Happened to find it while reading about flex. http://www.indianajones.com/site/?deeplink=videos/2/v30
April 7th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
At Ratio Interactive we’ve built large Flash applications with purely Flash IDE and recently other ones using purely Flex Builder IDE. I think the real issue is that the Flash IDE makes it easier to fully customize the user experience and ui look of your sites. Flex provides much more components and pre-built functionality thus provides a quicker build and more functionality out of the box.
I’m personally a fan of doing the top level class of your site in MXML (Flex) and everything else under that in purely AS3. This gives you all the functionality and components of Flex whenever you need and allows you to have the power of customization that Flash brings. (requires that you include the fl.swc in your project build path preferences).
Flex Builder and MXML have a lot of similarities to Visual Studio and C# and the .NET framework. Developers used to that environment will feel somewhat comfortable of being able to find their way around the Flex/MXML environment.
A few examples of components Flex 3 has that Flash CS3 does not:
1) Rich Text Editor (RTF Component)
2) Date Picker
3) A ton of built in graphing tools
4) More robust version of (eg. DataGrid and many more)
With Flex Builder 3 they’ve come a long way towards the ability to design the look and feel of the components to a certain point. But to truly and fully customize you’ll have to get into doing overrides or even just building stuff from scratch.
I do see a future where all ActionScripting is done outside of the Flash IDE using FlexBuilder or one of the various Text Editor tools (eg. FlashDevelop, sciTE, SEPY, TextMate, etc). And then design happening in the Flash IDE or the other Adobe products (Illustrator, Photoshop, Fireworks).
You can already install an add-on to Flash that allows you to design Flex Component skins from pre-built templates. This goes a long ways toward allowing people to create unique look and feels to their sites and applications. (maybe only 85% though).
April 7th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Hi Tony,
Tnx for this excellent comment. I’m very confident about the success of both programs, although i can confess that i tried flex several times but is too hard, or at least i’m not good enough to work on it. While in Flash, any auto-didactic person is able to start making simple things, in flex things come more complex and harder to achieve.
Anyway i liked very much the part where you mentioned the FlashDevelop, as it is a free for all program and it is giving “cards” in this software “game”, and is starting to assume a very important “job” in the middle of the “giants”.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:55 am
[...] few time ago, i’ve wrote a post asking for your opinion about which is the best program to work. After some opinions, we could [...]
October 5th, 2008 at 12:33 am
I disagree with people who judged that flash is for animation and funny stuff !
Flash can be integrated with any dynamic webpages like ASP, ASPX, CFM, jsp, and php.
Moreover, it can easily integrate with static or dynamically generated xml files like dynamic rss generated by any of the frontend scripting languages mentioned above.
Personally I developed search functionalities in FLASH, and made one Encyclopedia in CD-ROM. and end users found it so interesting that you need no additional component to install before running the CD. YES ! all you have to have is a flash player plugged in your browser !
I didn’t use flex before but I had a look at its tutorials; however, I decided not to waste my time learning it. Flash is really a FLASH ! it is huger and of larger capabilities and can do whatever you want with it. Not to mention games that can have your scores saved using LSO (Local Shared Objects).
Finally, I recommend flash over the silly Flex !
October 20th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
When developing apps with the Flash IDE; I always do as much as I can with actionscript and avoid the timeline. Mostly for the precision and flexibility of using math equations to generate shapes and tweens. Generally, I’ll use .as files for their extendibility and reusability. As it happens, most of my FLA’s end up being empty shells that point to a document class. So why do I use the Flash IDE instead of Flex?
Because when I need to draw something by hand, I can.
Because class/property documentations are only a click away.
And; because I can use visual aids on the “stage” to help determine the x, y, width, and height properties I need in code, which results in a lot less “guess and check.”
Lastly, I like my apps to be unique and original. Using components really takes away from that; but on the flip side, they are very quick and convenient when on a strict deadline. All in all, I think those who are familiar with the Flash IDE can benefit from it greatly.